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Dear Officers. Stop inviting friends rank unless...
#11
Should go something like this

Maggot - Everyone except...
King - Abec
[Image: 5FzNB.gif]
Reply
#12
Hitshade Wrote:SCRUB - the bads
Friends/Family - for actual friends and family
TRIAL - trails obv
MEMBER - former raiders, casual raiders, long time non raiding members, etc
RAID MEMBER - standard raider
CORE RAIDER - raider recognized for outstanding performance/dedication
CL/OFFICER ALT - Providing CLs and Officers access to O chat on their alts
CLASS LEADER - Class leaders, one per class (possibly per spec, hybrids only)
OFFICER - Individuals of dedication who Abec trusts to represent this level of authority
CO-GMs - Abec's lackeys, providers of lower back massage, bringers of glassed water and painkillers
Archmage-who do you think?
GM - ABEC

Fixed
Reply
#13
Agree with Hitshade.
Firecrest - Holy Pally
Fey - Bear
Reply
#14
Are the ranks really that bothersome? I don't want to make everything so corporate, it just seems wrong. I mean if we were going for world firsts or something I'd understand. I think people who are in officer chat should consider themselves privileged and I'm sure they do. Its not like we talk about anything important in there unless its raid time, and even then its usually bitching.

You can not make leaders, they arise from the ashes and help naturally. Having a title doesn't make what you are true. ROFLCER and CMDR Canada are the 'management' ranks of the guilds and Class Leaders are the class leaders.

Leave Voke out of this.
[Image: quotelogo.php]
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#15
I just think it couldn't do any wrong. It would certainly make things easier for new members. It wouldn't mean we would have to take ourselves any more seriously. Hell even in elementary school where its fun time almost all the time, there's a hierarchy.

Substitute teacher
The new kid
Student
Janitor
Lunch Lady
Teacher assistant
Teacher
VP
Principal
Parent


rofl. I dont even think the number of people in officer chat would decline that much. Theres no reason the core raider rank couldn't have access if that's what it boiled down to. As things are now, it seems like there is little motivation for anyone with a class lead rank to feel they should take a more involved role with the guild. Being able to fill a raid with CLs and Officer ranked raiders is equally as wrong as the corporate feeling you speak of. The fact that you had to make this post in the first place really speaks volumes towards requiring this action to be taken.


To answer your question though, yes, personally I do think the ranks as they sit now are a problem. Class Leader and to some extent even ROFLCER ranks are virtually meaningless at this point. If they truly are meaningless, then the solution isnt to revamp the ranks so much as to completely eliminate those two and just give everyone above member access to o-chat.

To use the corporate analogy again, we have an office building with one president, 3 vp's, 50 managers, 10 employees and a new hire.

Quote:You can not make leaders, they arise from the ashes and help naturally. Having a title doesn't make what you are true. ROFLCER and CMDR Canada are the 'management' ranks of the guilds and Class Leaders are the class leaders.

Although having a title should suggest that you actually do help the guild... that isnt the situation right now. We saw it with the recruiting debates and the issue, in my mind at least, has only gotten worse with the sheer number of people that have been promoted to CL and roflcer. Not even that long ago when you promoted me to Class Leader I felt it meant something, now it just feels like "Oh, you've been raiding for a week and didn't fuck up more than a couple times? You get to be a Class Leader, along with the 5 other people of your class who currently hold that guild rank, lolz"
[Image: WZpEFp9.gif?1]
[Image: NEsPq.gif]
[Image: 56jYs.gif]
Reply
#16
It is actually something that's been brought up before in regards to recruiting. The question then was basically who wants to take the initiative and go-out and actively participate in order to benefit the guild. In truth it is anyone that can do that. Since everyone should theoretically know their class, a CL shouldn't have to be a form of management that dictates what the class should do, but once again, that's something that the classes can manage within themselves without a CL.

However, all the red tape serves a purpose. Being structurally sound is a small thing that may make a huge difference in mentality and raid performance. In truth, Aside from the ability to see o-chat, and invite/promote within the guild, the only job where there needs to be that final word by a single person in a higher position is who to bring to what raid. This is a decision that needs to be made, and the person who makes it may as well in the mean-time have that drive and initiative to actively recruit and ensure that there are no problems with their class.

As aside note. At some point when we first transfered to Scilla, Abe said something along the lines of that the friends could transfer along and remain in the guild for two months or so until they get their affairs in order, and after that the friends rank thing would be abolished. I'm not saying to return to that idea of abolishing but perhaps to consider ideas of adjustment in the current system.
Reply
#17
Hitshade Wrote:rofl. I dont even think the number of people in officer chat would decline that much. Theres no reason the core raider rank couldn't have access if that's what it boiled down to. As things are now, it seems like there is little motivation for anyone with a class lead rank to feel they should take a more involved role with the guild. Being able to fill a raid with CLs and Officer ranked raiders is equally as wrong as the corporate feeling you speak of. The fact that you had to make this post in the first place really speaks volumes towards requiring this action to be taken.


To answer your question though, yes, personally I do think the ranks as they sit now are a problem. Class Leader and to some extent even ROFLCER ranks are virtually meaningless at this point. If they truly are meaningless, then the solution isnt to revamp the ranks so much as to completely eliminate those two and just give everyone above member access to o-chat.
To answer your concerns, the way I've always felt about this game is that its a Hobby. I run that expression into the ground a lot, but if you look at this as just a game then I feel you will never do well in the environment we play in.

Now as far as the officer thing goes, what I like is people that WANT to help and put forth the effort. People like jackslammer, alyse, lorake, and a few others help without worrying about what their rank is. They could give a shit if they were friends rank, they want to see the guild succeed. I prefer people that care about the game and the guild to be in those spots, and the only way I know how is to do what we have been doing for 3 years. I understand that some see it as meaningless title, but anyone that is even able to see officer chat I hold in high esteem, and even some of the people that aren't in it as well. Hell, some of our players dont even want to see officer chat especially during raid time.

The reason I made this post is because I was getting tells from random shit heads that were TOLD in their fucking applications that "you are shitty geared and obviously don't know anything about your class because your enchants and gems are terrible, but pst abec for a friends invite". That's fucking stupid, and I want to prevent that shit.

I'd rather just demote the people that are abusing the rules than change what we've been doing for so long.

King - Abec

Cmdr Canada - Voke and Jackslammer are CoGMs I cant remember if Lorake was a CoGM but he is up there with full bank access and a large say in what goes on in the guild which pretty much entails that. aka if i were to quit the game the guild would goto one of those 3.

ROFLCER - Have the highest say in what goes on in guild and in raids as far as overview such as strat/class makeup/drama

Class Leader - Lets me know when I need to adjust things specific for their class to be better ( ie adjust groups, etc ). They also are my goto people when someone apps of their class for them to talk to the player and get a better idea of their worth.
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#18
ArchmageFurly Wrote:However, all the red tape serves a purpose. Being structurally sound is a small thing that may make a huge difference in mentality and raid performance. In truth, Aside from the ability to see o-chat, and invite/promote within the guild, the only job where there needs to be that final word by a single person in a higher position is who to bring to what raid. This is a decision that needs to be made, and the person who makes it may as well in the mean-time have that drive and initiative to actively recruit and ensure that there are no problems with their class.

Exactly. To further this argument, how many times has Abe said we need to remove someone from the raid to make room and no one steps up to do it. When the raid is 90% CLs and ROFLCERS, which one feels they have the authority to tell another CL they have to leave?

That really is the role of Class Leaders in my mind. Its not to lead the guild, but to coordinating their class, to recruit for their class and having the ability to offer advise and knowledge when required.

I don't think this would be a ground breaking endeavor.
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#19
abecx Wrote:King - Abec

Cmdr Canada - Voke and Jackslammer are CoGMs I cant remember if Lorake was a CoGM but he is up there with full bank access and a large say in what goes on in the guild which pretty much entails that. aka if i were to quit the game the guild would goto one of those 3.

ROFLCER - Have the highest say in what goes on in guild and in raids as far as overview such as strat/class makeup/drama

Class Leader - Lets me know when I need to adjust things specific for their class to be better ( ie adjust groups, etc ). They also are my goto people when someone apps of their class for them to talk to the player and get a better idea of their worth.


Well this is exactly how it should be, I dont think Im really advocating anything different. The problem Im calling out, is the fact that I dont think there is a single class in the guild without 2-6 people of class leader or officer rank. It just doesn't make sense to me and it only leads to confuse the people of lower ranks. Hell, it probably confuses people that are CL rank.

If I cant convince you to do a little restructuring, I would at very least hope you take into consideration the addition of the CL/Officer Alt rank. If for no other reason than to make the people you do want as class leaders more easily visible.
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#20
In reality there just isn't enough ranks to make me happy where I think everyone is deserving to be.

Some people are class leaders because I want them to see Officer chat, the rank doesn't mean they are class leaders, just that I want their input. I guess I could make another rank and call it Chief Petty Officer or something
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