Why immortal failed on Instructor Razuvious

[Aragon]

Summary:

While a perfect taunt and threat rotation would be ideal, the cause of our failed Immortal run was due to one of two reasons. We could survive with 1 error, but not both.

1. Mages pulling threat. Even when taunt expires the boss will still follow normal threat mechanics.
   
2. According to wowhead, the Taunt lasts for 20 seconds AND only has a 10 second cool down. This means that future mind controllers need to spam taunt whenever it's up while bone shield is up. This could ensure the boss sticks to the add tanking.

What really happened?

• Duvail and Archlight picked up their mobs and both used Blood Strike.
  
• Both did not auto attack/melee the boss.
  
• 20 seconds later, taunt expired and Tyrani pulled aggro and was 1 shot.
  
• Duvail released his add.
  
• The boss came back to Archlight's Understudy and was taunted.
  
• Archlight did start meleeing the boss with her add.

Who is to blame?
Duvail, Archlight, Tyrani.

Duvail - Should have been meleeing to increase threat. I do not think his add ever melee'd the boss the entire fight. Could have taunted again to ensure aggro focus. His add was released .392 seconds too soon; however this was after the fact of a death in the raid.

Archlight - Should have been meleeing to increase threat. Did start meleeing after her first taunt. Might have been able to taunt 3 seconds earlier. [most of this due to lack of experience; ie first time]

Tyrani - Basically had higher aggro over the Understudy tank/offtank (controlled by Archlight/Duvail) and pulled threat when taunt expired. Tyrani could have been further away to ice block or to watch threat and drop it early.

Notes:
Understudy TAUNT is a melee range only.
Frostitude died second because one of the adds died. A faster Ice Block, threat management, an early taunt, voice comms over vent from healers and Mind Controllers could have helped to prevent this.

Combatlog Evidence:
*I added "#1" to the Understudy.

18:59'43.443 Instructor Razuvious is afflicted by Taunt. ***THIS IS THE FIRST TAUNT FROM UNDERSTUDY #2(Duvail)***
18:59'47.481 Death Knight Understudy #1 Blood Strike hits Instructor Razuvious for 3318 Physical. ***UNDERSTUDY #1 (Archlight) IS USING BLOODSTRIKE***
18:59'50.322 Death Knight Understudy #2 Blood Strike hits Instructor Razuvious for 6764 Physical. (Critical) ***UNDERSTUDY #2 (Duvail) IS USING BLOOD STRIKE***
18:59'50.517 Instructor Razuvious melee swing hits Death Knight Understudy #2 for 8974 Physical. ***THE BOSS IS ATTACKING UNDERSTUDY #2 (Duvail)***


19:00'03.443 ***THIS IS THE 20 SECOND MARK WHERE TAUNT FADES OFF***

19:00'05.035 Death Knight Understudy #1 gains Bone Barrier. ***UNDERSTUDY #1(Archlight) PREPARES TO TAUNT BY USING BONE BARRIER FIRST***

19:00'05.035 Tyrani Arcane Barrage hits Instructor Razuvious for 6706 Arcane.
19:00'05.862 Instructor Razuvious melee swing hits Tyrani for 73916 Physical.
19:00'06.053 Instructor Razuvious Disrupting Shout hits Death Knight Understudy #2 for 2745 Physical. ***UNDERSTUDY #2(Duvail) STILL TAKING DAMAGE FROM BOSS, STILL MC'd***
19:00'06.294 Tyrani died.

19:00'06.734 Death Knight Understudy #2 is afflicted by Consecration. ***UNDERSTUDY #2(Duvail) RELEASED AND TAKES RAID DAMAGE***

19:00'07.126 Instructor Razuvious is afflicted by Taunt. ***A NEW TAUNT FROM UNDERSTUDY #1(Archlight)***
19:00'07.548 Instructor Razuvious Unbalancing Strike hits Death Knight Understudy #1 for 25681 Physical. ***BOSS IS ATTACKING UNDERSTUDY #1 (Archlight)***

19:00'15.412 Death Knight Understudy #1 melee swing hits Instructor Razuvious for 4815 Physical. (Glancing) ***UNDERSTUDY #1(Archlight) FIRST RECORDED MELEE SWING***

[suplol]

WHAR ACHIEVEMENT PLZ HALp

[Zoia]

we all know what happened mark

[Firecrest]

voice comms over vent from healers

Wait, what? No amount of healer communication is going to prevent a one shot of that magnitude.

[Kaistine]

voice comms over vent from healers

Wait, what? No amount of healer communication is going to prevent a one shot of that magnitude.

I think he was referring to the priests mind controlling.

[mascaron]

From what I understand of it, the taunt from Archlight was several seconds late. The 20 sec mark passed, and 2 sec after that she put up bone armor, then 2 sec later she taunts. Obviously you can't parse vent into here, but I'm pretty sure Duvail called out for taunt 5 sec before his taunt ran out. If Archlight would have taunted, everything else would have been fine.

Secondary problem that wouldn't have been an issue normally:

Duvail didn't melee and had very low threat at the beginning. This doesn't really matter if Raz is always taunted, which he should be.

Tertiary problem that wouldn't have been an issue without both the first and second problems occuring:

Tyrani had highest aggro once taunt faded. He was standing pretty close and didn't iceblock. Again, if tanked properly, this should have never happened.

Even with all of these problems, it's somewhat debatable we could have done it. However, several people were above the DK's in threat, and his point that "if I would have iceblocked he would have one shot the guy next to me)" is pretty valid. Taunt is melee range only, so if he would have ran back to the ramp to hit the next person.. that person would drag Raz out of melee range of the understudy anyway.

It all stems down to the First problem. Secondary problem can be addressed later to prevent potential fuck ups later, Tertiary problems are very minute (i.e. standing too close to someone who's standing too close to someone in range of a chain cleave).


On a side note, we should have just done a taunt kiting rotation and not used priests at all imo. Warrior taunts Raz and runs away, 2nd warrior taunts raz from 20 yrds away and kites back, hunter taunts and kites, first warrior taunts and kites, etc ; )

[Firecrest]

On a side note, we should have just done a taunt kiting rotation and not used priests at all imo. Warrior taunts Raz and runs away, 2nd warrior taunts raz from 20 yrds away and kites back, hunter taunts and kites, first warrior taunts and kites, etc ; )

Not debating the validity of the strategy, but it's pretty stupid that we would have to consider resorting to alternate methods because people aren't able to do what they're supposed to do. Blizz designed the encounter to work with two Priests. We had three.

I make more than my fair share of mistakes and was even involved in one of our other failed Immortal runs, so that's pretty much as much bitching as you're going to hear from me on the matter. The game itself prevents us from getting this achievement in a normal way (on a normal day at normal hours) and so we're forced to work around that by catering to the lag and playing on a day and time that most people aren't used to and some people were not able to attend. We went in there with a couple people we wouldn't have if we were "A-Team"ing it and definately with a few people in roles we don't normally ask of them - and we paid the price.

My real frustration - and the real culprit here IMO - is the shitty server performance lately. Let's face it. If it weren't for the instance lag, we would have had this out of the way weeks ago.

[lawlerbation the hardcore squatter]

healer communication can stop the adds from dieing

[jackslammer]

Here are my two cents.

Firstly even with the high stress of vent after situations like these and emotions flying rampant, I usually sympathize with Abe for leading the guild and having the buck stop at him, I don't think he ever wants to piss people off and I even think he'd gladly not raid lead if he didn't have to. So bad guy Abe, fuck you pal!

Secondly I appreciate this post a lot Aragon. This is what needs to be done when a death/wipe occurs rather than a full out personal shout fest argument on vent in the middle of a fucking raid. I also greatly appreciate having WWS and WMO available, and check out that 19939 HPS on Patchwerk.

Duvail even said it's hard to blame Archlight since she had never done this before and was having connection issues previous to pulling the boss. I really didn't expect anybody to buy a bag or lose DKP over this incident, although it would've been nice to have Archlight speak up and say what really happened before allowing vent to spiral out of control and listen to people defend her, but hey that's drama baby! :lol:

As for specifics to the fight, if everything is taunted and executed correctly there would be no reason to ever watch threat or stand at max range. Part of what makes great players and guilds are those that can identify and react to mistakes like a slow taunt or a resisted taunt. Knowing Archlight was new and not hit capped should've made people a lot more cautious to watch threat, stay back, preemptively use immunities and threat drops, etc.

So in the case of who could've have prevented that death;
archlight taunting faster
ethax iceblocking
duvail doing more threat
archlight doing more threat
jackslammer bopping ethax
alyse bopping ethax
sanderz bopping ethax
rakimacy taunting the understudy
aragon taunting
aragon intervening ethax
rootbear taunting
etc. etc. etc.

1. Are those things listed expected and should people be at blame for not doing them when somebody dies? Probably not.
2. Do people need to do these things for us to get Immortal? Probably.
3. Does scaring only the catalyst of these mistakes into not doing them again by buying a bag or losing DKP prevent them from doing it again? Doubtful.

I am disappointed over this whole incident, and I swear Immortal is turning into a guild breaker, but I don't think Archlight's gender has anything to do with what went wrong or what anybody said on vent. I also think this thread is more beneficial than any amount of DKP deducted or bags bought when it comes to Immortal next week.

[Zoia]

So in the case of who could've have prevented that death;
archlight taunting faster
ethax iceblocking
duvail doing more threat
archlight doing more threat
jackslammer bopping ethax
alyse bopping ethax
sanderz bopping ethax
rakimacy taunting the understudy
aragon taunting
aragon intervening ethax
rootbear taunting
etc. etc. etc.

i believe that a few more bags should be rolled off in this case