H Lich King P3 (WATCH PLZ)

[Riinuka]

I like the follow the leader tactic used with defile. Everyone run one way, the person with defile runs the other. I don't know how well that would work for us, but it seemed like a pretty decent way for them to get the defiles right the hell where THEY wanted them.

[Hitshade]

I like the follow the leader tactic used with defile. Everyone run one way, the person with defile runs the other. I don't know how well that would work for us, but it seemed like a pretty decent way for them to get the defiles right the hell where THEY wanted them.

Why are you derailing my thread about how wotlk should have ended?

[Hitshade]

But that's pretty much the point of a MMO. If I wanted rich story and deep background, I'd watch a movie or read a book. The in game lore should enhance my playing experience, not confuse it. If it's supposed to be the big, climatic reward for finishing the expansion, I should at least be able to understand it with just the limited lore presented in game.

I want to be immersed in the story and lore of a game. A rich story and deep background are, for me, an integral part of that immersion. (Particularly if we're talking about an MMO). With no attachment to lore or story the genre degrades for me into a hack n' slash without the hack or slash. Take the immersion out of an MMO and you're left with a game about finding loot at an incredibly slow pace.

Arthas' end was so anti-climactic and utterly unsatisfying.

CONGRATULATIONS YOU DEFEATED THE LICH KING AND SAVED THE WORLD!
...
HA-HA JK.

[Talith]

IN B4 TLR

The end was so fucking dissapointing. Blizzard's like oh, let's not focus on who the Lich King really is, let's just focus on Arthas' dumb ass. I wanted to see Ner'Zhul's soul screaming in fury in the frostmourn room rather than Menethil's retarded ass, who could have avoided all this if he had listened to the crazy guy who transformed into a Raven.

Frostmourne traps the souls it consumes, Ner'Zul was trapped by KilJaeden on the armor the Lich King wears (they have given the helm the most improtance so we can assume the helm has Ner'ZUl trapped).
There is NO reason to have Ner´Zul inside frostmourne. On the other hand, Menethil was one of the first victims of Frostmourne, however I admit it would be better if he had listened to Medivh.

Also, Bolvat doesn't stand a fucking chance in hell against Ner'Zhul, so it makes no sense at all that he'd be able to hold the scourge in place, even without his soul consumed by Frostmourne.
They made it seem as if the Lich King is the person wearing the helm, when in reality they're not at all. What they need to do i have fucking Ner'Zhul posses Bolvar's ass and show them what's up. Instead we get to see a 3 second clip of Arthas dying with no mention of Ner'Zhul, the fucking guy who was responsible for the Orc's corruption and invasion of Azeroth, the one who made Draenor get ripped apart by arcane energy, and the one who after being mercillessly tortured by Kil'Jaeden became the lich king and brought about the second coming of the Legion. In all that Arthas was basically a little toy that got manipulated left and right, and had no real control even after they fused, which only happened because Malfurian is retarded and stopped Illidan from destroying the frozen throne, giving Arthas time to escape from Lordaeron where the bitch staged a coup, and fight off Illidan and fuse with Ner'Zhul.

But no, let's make Arthas seem more important than he really is.

Whoaaaa. While there is no doubt Arthas was manipulated by Ner´Zul using his strong character to make him pick up frostmourne, when they fused together there were 3 personalities in conflict, Arthas, his "good side" Matthias and Ner´Zul, Arthas killed Matthias and then pretty much told NerZul that he would not listen to anyone and became the "dominant" personality. It's not about the person wearing the helm, its about the personality of all the ones involved that became dominant, and Arthas was the winner there. Now that Arthas is dead, Bolvar has fused with Ner´Zul on a new Lich King. He will have to "battle" him and no one is denying that Ner´Zul could win this time and return. It has been stated by some blues that Ner´Zul story isn't over, and we all know how blizzard loves "merely a setback" bad guys.

As a loose follower of the lore, the end of Wrath makes no sense to me. Why does it matter who wears the helmet? If the power is in the helmet, then why does Arthas’ defeat have nothing to do with us removing his helmet? I thought the bad guy was in the sword anyhow. If the sword breaks and all the souls it sucked get free, why doesn’t the bad guy get free too? Where’d the bad guy go?

The helmet/Frostmourne relationship is a little sketchy in some places. Ner´Zul was trapped in the "whole set of armor" by the Nathrezim, that includes Frostmourne. He then pushes it out of his ice block prision so he can corrupt and lure Arthas. You could say there is as much "control" power over the scourge in the helmet than in the sword and the "bad guy" (Ner´Zul) is in the helm AND the sword. However Frostmourne also has the whole soul trapping thing going on however Frostmourne traps it's victims, not the master. When the raid gets raped by LK he intends to turn everyone to servants, Tirion breaks free and uses Ashbringer to break Frostmourne. This releases all the LK's victims (it would have been cool to see Uther also there helping on that final push), the bad guy is not going anywhere since he still is trapped in the helm. Finally we kill the Lich King and you see in the video how he loses the helm. It's simple, Ner'Zul has lost its physical vessel once more (he can't do much as a piece of armor) so he let's go. Arthas dies as Arthas, Ner'zul now gets a shot at a new body if he beats Bolvar.

Why exactly does there need to be a Lich King? There was no Lich King at some point in the past and everyone got along just fine then. So what gives?

And what good is he locked in a block of ice? Why’s he need to be in there anyway? Who put the block of ice there? And couldn’t the Lich King just leave whenever the hell he felt like?

I don't even know who the Lich King is, anyhow. I think he's some combination of some bad guy trapped in Forstmourn and the human host that wields it, right? The sword and the world were just fine doing their thing until Arthas picked that shit up, so why the hell does there need to be a Lich King? Why can we just go back to that?

There was no scourge either at that point in the past. The scourge was created by the Lich King and apparently it would be worse not to have someone controlling it.... Now after clearing up all that continent I have never seen the scourge be something that the rest of the races can't just crush, IMO it should be "destroy LK then destroy the scourge". How worse can it be without the guy pulling the strings? if anything it should be easier.

Before the fusion, Ner'Zul was placed in the block of ice by the Burning Legion, he couldn't escape till arthas broke him free. After the fusion The lich king by itself became dormant in a block ofice, this is when the inner battle happened, and he also regained strength. Now Bolvar encases himself again in ice, I think its because he will also have a inner battle against Ner'Zul.

Ner'Zul by himself was the Lich King before fusing with Arthas, but Arthas and Bolvar both have fused with him and become a Lich King as a single entity. The sword and the world were not "fine"before Arthas' corruption. The original plan of the Burning Legion was just to use Ner'Zul trapped there to create the scourge, do damage, grow as an army and they would have now a strong force when destroying Hyjal. The demons did not anticipate Ner'Zul wanting to break free, luring arthas and using him to disrupt their plan (Arthas steered Illidian to the skull of Gul'dan which eventually made orcs kill the pit lord and made Archimonde's forces smaller on the final assault in Hyal). Of course the pissed off KilJaeden wanted Ner'zul to pay and thus sent Illidian to destroy the Frozen throne. Thanks to this conflict they are separate forces trying to take over the world which gave us the chance to lvl up to 70 and 80 and attack them by themselves getting nice purples in the way.

The Lich King exerts some form of control over the Scourge apparently, but what the hell does that even mean? Without the Lich King the Scourge would, what? Be even more mindless than they already are? Stupider undead doesn’t really sound like a bad thing. I think I heard someone say that, without the Lich King, they’d somehow overrun the world or something, but that makes no sense at all. Isn’t that what they are trying to do already? How is the Scourge’s stated goal of world domination somehow made worse by having a leader?

Who the fuck are the Scourge anyhow? How are they different from the rest of the undead? Aren’t they the ones that were lobbing plague bombs all over the place in that one cinematic? And if that was them, what the fuck were they doing shooting that shit at Arthas, who is supposedly controlling them?

All in all, the confusion made the whole thing pretty unsatisfying as a player of the game. Akama and Illidan I could understand. Blizzard should leave the shit you need a flowchart to follow in the paperback novels and keep things a bit more simple in game.

Just to clarify, the scourge are the undead under the lich kings control, the free ones are the Forsaken

I do agree that Stupider undead doesn’t really sound like a bad thing. However the last time I checked, the undead not bound to the Lich King are Sylvanas and her bunch, with a faction of them doing bombs to kill both horde AND alliance (Wrathgate). We know the Forsaken are allied wit the horde because it works for them right now. Without a Lich King the forsaken faction would become lare enough to take over both horde and alliance, hell Sylvanas is already recruiting Valks to make the army larger.

[ArchmageFurly in three days]

IN B4 TLR

The end was so fucking dissapointing. Blizzard's like oh, let's not focus on who the Lich King really is, let's just focus on Arthas' dumb ass. I wanted to see Ner'Zhul's soul screaming in fury in the frostmourn room rather than Menethil's retarded ass, who could have avoided all this if he had listened to the crazy guy who transformed into a Raven.

Frostmourne traps the souls it consumes, Ner'Zul was trapped by KilJaeden on the armor the Lich King wears (they have given the helm the most improtance so we can assume the helm has Ner'ZUl trapped).
There is NO reason to have Ner´Zul inside frostmourne. On the other hand, Menethil was one of the first victims of Frostmourne, however I admit it would be better if he had listened to Medivh.

Also, Bolvat doesn't stand a fucking chance in hell against Ner'Zhul, so it makes no sense at all that he'd be able to hold the scourge in place, even without his soul consumed by Frostmourne.
They made it seem as if the Lich King is the person wearing the helm, when in reality they're not at all. What they need to do i have fucking Ner'Zhul posses Bolvar's ass and show them what's up. Instead we get to see a 3 second clip of Arthas dying with no mention of Ner'Zhul, the fucking guy who was responsible for the Orc's corruption and invasion of Azeroth, the one who made Draenor get ripped apart by arcane energy, and the one who after being mercillessly tortured by Kil'Jaeden became the lich king and brought about the second coming of the Legion. In all that Arthas was basically a little toy that got manipulated left and right, and had no real control even after they fused, which only happened because Malfurian is retarded and stopped Illidan from destroying the frozen throne, giving Arthas time to escape from Lordaeron where the bitch staged a coup, and fight off Illidan and fuse with Ner'Zhul.

But no, let's make Arthas seem more important than he really is.

Whoaaaa. While there is no doubt Arthas was manipulated by Ner´Zul using his strong character to make him pick up frostmourne, when they fused together there were 3 personalities in conflict, Arthas, his "good side" Matthias and Ner´Zul, Arthas killed Matthias and then pretty much told NerZul that he would not listen to anyone and became the "dominant" personality. It's not about the person wearing the helm, its about the personality of all the ones involved that became dominant, and Arthas was the winner there. Now that Arthas is dead, Bolvar has fused with Ner´Zul on a new Lich King. He will have to "battle" him and no one is denying that Ner´Zul could win this time and return. It has been stated by some blues that Ner´Zul story isn't over, and we all know how blizzard loves "merely a setback" bad guys.

As a loose follower of the lore, the end of Wrath makes no sense to me. Why does it matter who wears the helmet? If the power is in the helmet, then why does Arthas’ defeat have nothing to do with us removing his helmet? I thought the bad guy was in the sword anyhow. If the sword breaks and all the souls it sucked get free, why doesn’t the bad guy get free too? Where’d the bad guy go?

The helmet/Frostmourne relationship is a little sketchy in some places. Ner´Zul was trapped in the "whole set of armor" by the Nathrezim, that includes Frostmourne. He then pushes it out of his ice block prision so he can corrupt and lure Arthas. You could say there is as much "control" power over the scourge in the helmet than in the sword and the "bad guy" (Ner´Zul) is in the helm AND the sword. However Frostmourne also has the whole soul trapping thing going on however Frostmourne traps it's victims, not the master. When the raid gets raped by LK he intends to turn everyone to servants, Tirion breaks free and uses Ashbringer to break Frostmourne. This releases all the LK's victims (it would have been cool to see Uther also there helping on that final push), the bad guy is not going anywhere since he still is trapped in the helm. Finally we kill the Lich King and you see in the video how he loses the helm. It's simple, Ner'Zul has lost its physical vessel once more (he can't do much as a piece of armor) so he let's go. Arthas dies as Arthas, Ner'zul now gets a shot at a new body if he beats Bolvar.

Why exactly does there need to be a Lich King? There was no Lich King at some point in the past and everyone got along just fine then. So what gives?

And what good is he locked in a block of ice? Why’s he need to be in there anyway? Who put the block of ice there? And couldn’t the Lich King just leave whenever the hell he felt like?

I don't even know who the Lich King is, anyhow. I think he's some combination of some bad guy trapped in Forstmourn and the human host that wields it, right? The sword and the world were just fine doing their thing until Arthas picked that shit up, so why the hell does there need to be a Lich King? Why can we just go back to that?

There was no scourge either at that point in the past. The scourge was created by the Lich King and apparently it would be worse not to have someone controlling it.... Now after clearing up all that continent I have never seen the scourge be something that the rest of the races can't just crush, IMO it should be "destroy LK then destroy the scourge". How worse can it be without the guy pulling the strings? if anything it should be easier.

Before the fusion, Ner'Zul was placed in the block of ice by the Burning Legion, he couldn't escape till arthas broke him free. After the fusion The lich king by itself became dormant in a block ofice, this is when the inner battle happened, and he also regained strength. Now Bolvar encases himself again in ice, I think its because he will also have a inner battle against Ner'Zul.

Ner'Zul by himself was the Lich King before fusing with Arthas, but Arthas and Bolvar both have fused with him and become a Lich King as a single entity. The sword and the world were not "fine"before Arthas' corruption. The original plan of the Burning Legion was just to use Ner'Zul trapped there to create the scourge, do damage, grow as an army and they would have now a strong force when destroying Hyjal. The demons did not anticipate Ner'Zul wanting to break free, luring arthas and using him to disrupt their plan (Arthas steered Illidian to the skull of Gul'dan which eventually made orcs kill the pit lord and made Archimonde's forces smaller on the final assault in Hyal). Of course the pissed off KilJaeden wanted Ner'zul to pay and thus sent Illidian to destroy the Frozen throne. Thanks to this conflict they are separate forces trying to take over the world which gave us the chance to lvl up to 70 and 80 and attack them by themselves getting nice purples in the way.

The Lich King exerts some form of control over the Scourge apparently, but what the hell does that even mean? Without the Lich King the Scourge would, what? Be even more mindless than they already are? Stupider undead doesn’t really sound like a bad thing. I think I heard someone say that, without the Lich King, they’d somehow overrun the world or something, but that makes no sense at all. Isn’t that what they are trying to do already? How is the Scourge’s stated goal of world domination somehow made worse by having a leader?

Who the fuck are the Scourge anyhow? How are they different from the rest of the undead? Aren’t they the ones that were lobbing plague bombs all over the place in that one cinematic? And if that was them, what the fuck were they doing shooting that shit at Arthas, who is supposedly controlling them?

All in all, the confusion made the whole thing pretty unsatisfying as a player of the game. Akama and Illidan I could understand. Blizzard should leave the shit you need a flowchart to follow in the paperback novels and keep things a bit more simple in game.

Just to clarify, the scourge are the undead under the lich kings control, the free ones are the Forsaken

I do agree that Stupider undead doesn’t really sound like a bad thing. However the last time I checked, the undead not bound to the Lich King are Sylvanas and her bunch, with a faction of them doing bombs to kill both horde AND alliance (Wrathgate). We know the Forsaken are allied wit the horde because it works for them right now. Without a Lich King the forsaken faction would become lare enough to take over both horde and alliance, hell Sylvanas is already recruiting Valks to make the army larger.

In regards to the Ner'Zul comment. No shit his soul wasn't consumed. But my point is I wanted him to come into play at some point during the fight, and seeing as we're not pulled into LK's fucking helm, the Frostmourne room would be a valid place. Especially considering that Ner'Zul created the blade, meaning it wouldn't be hard to imagine some part of his will or power residing inside of it.

I already said that the person wearing the helm is not in fact the lich king alone. It's better to consider it this way: The Arthas that became the dominant personality, is the one who exists after being the first soul to be consumed by frostmourne. If you consider the good part of Arthas that soul that was consumed, the fact that he even had a bid for control shows that the power of the lich king is tied very closely to the souls consumed by the blade. This new Arthas can be compared much to Neltharion, and the way he was manipulated by the old gods. Especially since both he and Arthas placed an object that came into their hands due to the power of those maipulating them, and ultimatly chose to cherish that object rather than listen to their masters, as shown by how Neltharion attempted to steal the Demon Soul back from Sargeras when he was attempting to open a portal into the well. It was much the same with Arthas and Ner'Zul, as the souless Arthas hungered for more power, and that thirst led him to overcome Ner'Zul. You kind of have to sympathize with him. I mean, Gul'dan usurped him and now Arthas. Perhaps third time is the charm with Bolvar. However, with Bolvar, it won't be a three way battle, since Bolvar's soul and will are not in conflict with each other as were those of Arthas.

Also I should mention this Talith. Alyse trolled you very badly. He said that because he knew I'd be tempted to answer every question in great detail when he doesn't care at all about the answers. I was tempted, but you spared me having to endure his ridicule. And also, Thrall and Grom destroyed Mannoroth before Illidan was even released. It was the dreadlord Tichondrius whom Illidan killed after having consumed the Skull.

[Talith]

I was tempted to quote just o have a triple wall of text.

Fuck you Alyse, got trolled good then.

And you're right i confused the skull with the blood thing that made the orcs rage and kill mannoroth to free themselves.

THANK YOU FOR READING MY RAMBLINGS FURLY you are a good gnome, even if Alyse says otherwise.

[CAN]

http://www.freakinghugeurl.com/refer.php...xWTlJHczk=

[Thorran]

You guys missed the part where blizzard rewrote LK lore. Helmet = LK. That's it. No souls, no who's controlling who, just Helmet = LK.

[thirdimpact]

[spence]

:text-goodpost: