umad jack

[Crazy Diana]

[Firecrest]

Gov can't make you buy things. But they can fine tax you if you don't buy things. This is a completely logical system we have in place.

[mascaron]

Gov can't make you buy things. But they can fine tax you if you don't buy things. This is a completely logical system we have in place.

YA! Why haven't you been arguing against auto insurance requirements, FDA restaurant requirements, and vendor licenses? Oh wait, because ALL of those, including healthcare, do make complete, logical sense.

[jackslammer]

Alyse you trolololololling?

[Firecrest]

Gov can't make you buy things. But they can fine tax you if you don't buy things. This is a completely logical system we have in place.

YA! Why haven't you been arguing against auto insurance requirements, FDA restaurant requirements, and vendor licenses? Oh wait, because ALL of those, including healthcare, do make complete, logical sense.

Then give the government the power to force purchases. I don't care about the healthcare thing one way or another and I’m not trying to say the government shouldn’t be able to do what they’re trying to do. My employer provides health insurance and I take advantage of it because it's the responsible thing to do and I’m well aware just how retarded the public at large is. We definitely need someone forcing people to make intelligent decisions when the unintelligent decisions (like running around without car insurance) hurt the rest of us.

What I’m saying is that the stupidity of disallowing the government to force purchases but allowing them to fine non-purchasers is just, well... stupid. It reeks of loophole and is not how our government should be run.

Lastly, though I agree with the base conclusion I believe you’re supporting, “because we've done it before" is never EVER a good argument for why we should continue something going forward. That aspect should be give due consideration, of course, but you should always judge something on its merit, not on its precedence.

Alyse you trolololololling?

No troll. The government's a fucking mess.

We like to claim to have the greatest government in the world, but we're resting on our laurels and have been for decades. Our government was great centuries ago when it got shit done and did real and lasting good for the people. All we've managed to do the last 50 years is take the great thing we were given and not fuck it up too bad. Our government today doesn't DO hardly anything. And partisanship, especially in the past decade or so, has gotten absolutely retarded. That one group of people hate an idea JUST BECAUSE another group of people like it is fucking idiotic.

It's like we were given a pristine vintage Rolls Royce and we took it, installed a second steering wheel, set the cruise control and promptly ran it off the road and into the brush time and time again - but it's okay cause we've not driven off a cliff yet.

[Crazy Diana]

give alyse the reins for a week and he'll forget to bubble on sapphironforget something very important

[jackslammer]

Gov can't make you buy things. But they can fine tax you if you don't buy things. This is a completely logical system we have in place.

YA! Why haven't you been arguing against auto insurance requirements, FDA restaurant requirements, and vendor licenses? Oh wait, because ALL of those, including healthcare, do make complete, logical sense.

Then give the government the power to force purchases.

Word it how you want Alyse, but governments have been forcing the purchase of services forever. Imposing a financial charge on an entity is the definition of a tax.

What I’m saying is that the stupidity of disallowing the government to force purchases but allowing them to fine non-purchasers is just, well... stupid. It reeks of loophole and is not how our government should be run.

A tax "is not a voluntary payment or donation, but an enforced contribution, exacted pursuant to legislative authority" and is "any contribution imposed by government [...] whether under the name of toll, tribute, tallage, gabel, impost, duty, custom, excise, subsidy, aid, supply, or other name."

DON'T TREAD ON ME!

[Crazy Diana]

confirmed, jack mad

[lawlerbation the hardcore squatter]

CANT WAIT TO NOT PAY THAT

[Firecrest]

give alyse the reins for a week and he'll forget to bubble on sapphiron forget something very important

I'm old. It happens. :lol:

Word it how you want Alyse, but governments have been forcing the purchase of services forever. Imposing a financial charge on an entity is the definition of a tax.

A tax "is not a voluntary payment or donation, but an enforced contribution, exacted pursuant to legislative authority" and is "any contribution imposed by government [...] whether under the name of toll, tribute, tallage, gabel, impost, duty, custom, excise, subsidy, aid, supply, or other name."

DON'T TREAD ON ME!

I think you misunderstood me. I'm fine with the government telling people they have to buy healthcare. People ought to be doing it on their own but are too stupid and so they need the government to hold their hand and make them do what's right.

But that's not what's happening. The government CAN'T tell people to buy healthcare. So instead, they're taxing people who don't buy healthcare. This is an important distinction as it is a great example of the stupidity of our current legislature. Rather than fixing the problem and gaining the power to make stupid people do smart things, they're loopholing it by just saying, "Fine, you don't have to. We'll just charge you if you don't."

This is a great example of the idiocy of the current partisan divide. The ONLY reason the GOP fights this so strongly is because it came from Obama. And God forbid the other side do something good since it might make us look bad. The right's objections hold no water. If a random doof like Masc (no offense) can poke huge holes in their argument, it should be pretty clear that they're on the wrong side. But no. It's too fucking hard to step back, give Obama a hand and say, "Hey, good job doing something to help the country. We have a few kinks we'd like to see ironed out. Let's see what we can do."

And this from a right leaning moderate. Don't get me wrong though. The Dems are just as fucking retarded. I hate them all equally.