If you want to be a badass

[Archlight]

god bless it (america)

[Keiku]

YO I'LL REP THE STATES WITH A FLAG! HOOK A 12 YEAR OLD GIRL UP!

[ArchmageFurly in three days]

I'm not American. So I'm better than you.

[Faldelore]

You're right, i'm not american. I also think taking souvenirs of a global human tradgedy is somewhat distasteful, but you say patriotism...

[Thorran]

Falde your whole country is a global fucking tragedy.

[Firecrest]

You're right, i'm not american. I also think taking souvenirs of a global human tradgedy is somewhat distasteful, but you say patriotism...

Yeah. Supporting troops that are risking their lives for your liberties is so unpatriotic.

[Faldelore]

how does brandishing a flag as a trophy support the troops? also, they're not risking their lives for my liberty or, for that matter, your liberty. they're supposedly risking their lives for the liberty of whichever country their invading now. or because we're running out of oil. or whatever it is.

I have no problem with supporting the troops. they've enlisted in the armed forces to defend their nation, which is a laudable ideal. i just don't see how distributing flags achieves that in anyway whatsoever. go to support rallies, send them food packages, knit them sweaters. these things might support the troops in a meaningful way. distributing 'badass' flags is nothing more than novelty collection.

[lawlerbation the hardcore squatter]

novelty MORE LIKE BADASSLTY

[Keiku]

What he is saying is we Amerifags should just run out of oil so we can be 3rd world

[Pathicus]

There are plenty of guys out there fighting for noble reasons, but there are plenty more who would sooner have nothing to do with the whole damn war. So let's not treat every Tom, Dick and Harry in uniform as an object worthy of adulation, or even unusual respect. There are some heroes in there, but there are an awful lot of people who just want to get back to their homes and families. They're not holy warriors deserving unquestioning praise, mostly they're just guys like you and me.

But to get onto the less serious subject of Mini...before we begin Mini, I should make it clear that I have no problem with your liking or distributing these flags (although boasting about your grandfather having that Little Boy flag is a bit sick). I have a problem with you throwing about thought terminating clichés and thinking that you've made a point. I have a problem with you implying that people who don't see the point of the flags are ideologically inferior. And I have a problem with you clearly not having any idea what you're talking about. You're giving out collector's items. Don't kid yourself that it's anything more significant than that.

Clearly you are not patriotic and not an American.

Ok, just what the hell kind of definition of "patriotic" are you using here? Even if we were to accept your bizarre premise of "If you're not excited by your flag you're not a patriot.", what you're saying is still fucking stupid. In the same sentence you questioned Falde's patriotism on absurd grounds, you also noted something important about him...Falde isn't American.

Since he's not American, his attitudes towards the American armed services aren't in any way relevant to whether he's a patriot. (Really though, those feelings wouldn't be relevant to his patriotism even if he was American, love for a country and love for its defence forces are very different.) Patriotism is an unswerving devotion to the interests of and a great love of one’s own nation, not necessarily to the interests of the USA.

So Mini, if your accusation is to make any sense at all you'll need to dramatically redefine "Patriot" to mean either:

1. A Patriot is somebody who so adores the armed services of every nation in the world that they would jump at the opportunity to get a bit of cloth that was signed by anybody serving in any nation's military uniform.

OR

2. A Patriot is somebody who, regardless of their own nationality, thinks the U.S Armed Forces are unbelievably cool. They're so cool that if you're not excited by a flag they signed then you're a bad person! They're so cool that if you own a flag like that, it'll make you a badass! They're so cool that you'd be proud to have a souvenir of the massacre of 140,000 civilians. (To pre-empt the obvious yet obviously flawed rebuttal, while the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were probably appropriate; we should keep in mind that they were a necessary evil, not something to take pride in. Keeping a trophy of that event is unbelievably distasteful and shows a remarkable lack of both philosophy and empathy.)

I've left out some alternative, even more absurd definitions. But let's continue

If we use definition number one, then I shouldn't need to point out that you wouldn't be a Patriot either. I'm willing to wager that there are plenty of signed flags that have seen combat who you wouldn't be excited to receive; be they signed by the Australians, the French or the Iraqi Republican Guard. Since we've established you're not a patriot, it seems odd that you'd level such a charge at our Falde. Quite hypocritical really. Tut, Tut.

If we use definition number two on the other hand, well doggone it you're a red blooded American patriot. If we ignore the fact that definition number two has no relationship with the actual meaning of the word (hey, we had to get your argument to work somehow), we can't escape the conclusion that being a patriot by definition number two is nothing to be proud of...or even admit to publicly. By definition number two a patriot is just a zealot with a gun fetish.

And while we're on the subject, real patriotism (by its actual definition) isn't anything to be proud of either. While having positive feelings towards your country is fine, you've gone too far by the time those feelings get to the level that people feel the need to use the word "patriot". In such cases, patriotism is all too often just a tarted up term for nationalism or jingoism, two ideals that have been driving forces towards some of the most destructive conflicts in human history (including, by the by, two world wars) as well as being a basis for countless forms of oppression, prejudice and people generally arsing about being dicks.

Patriotic attitudes flow quite naturally into idealogical territory where the interests of people who were born in the same country as you are far more important the interests of foreigners. It is absolutely appropriate for National Governments to act according to this standard. But as an ideology for the individual, this attitude is short-sighted, immoral and not even remotely Christian.

But it's time to enter to the crazy world of Firecrest, where collecting bits of cloth in order to feel like a man isn't just a personal indulgence, it's

Supporting troops that are risking their lives for your liberties

As much as this band pisses me off with nonsense lefty crap, in this case they're the most appropriate response to your claim.

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Stick magnetic ribbons on your SUV, asshole. You're not supporting anybody.

Tl;dr, Mini doesn't know what patriotism is and doesn't critically evaluate his own beliefs. I'd appreciate it if he could cut the jingoist crap and just give people their flags.

Edit; attributed quote to the wrong dude. Fixed now.