If you want to be a badass

[Pathicus]

I call shotgun on crazyd's naughty places.

[Faldelore]

Who's blaming the individual soldier, [MINI]? Who here is saying that the missions those flags were flown on were immoral? It's possible that they were immoral missions, but even so, nobody posting has once insinuated that the pilot should be held accountable.

The issue in question here is the idea that owning a flag which has been flown in some cargo hold over a warzone constitutes patriotism. Even if we dismiss the idea of patriotism as short-sighted and jingoistic, as i feel Pathicus has demonstrated that it is, we can still consider the concept of owning a piece of war memorabilia as supporting the troops. The simple fact of the matter is that it does not, in any practical terms, support anybody except for flag manufacturers.

Yes, I understand how these flags might hold some sentimental value for the actual pilots involved in these missions. They are risking their lives for the mission, and a reminder of their potential sacrifice, and the sacrifice of their friends, for their country may well be a poignant and touching piece of their own personaly history.

Where people may find objection to these flags is where they are simply pawned off to what are essentially random and unrelated persons as a piece of war 'badass'ery. Of course, this may appeal to the, nation loving, 'support the troops and who gives a flying fuck who they're killing or why', patriotic, middle ground American. To the discerning observer, however, it simply rings of bloodlust.

Maybe they should teach you how to read in basic training?

Nobody is saying that the pilots don't suffer fucking hell. I fully believe that American pilots, and the rest of the American armed forces, commit both heroic and deplorable acts. I fully believe that members of any armed force in the world commit both heroic and deplorable acts. I'm not trying to condemn members of the armed forces. All I am trying to say is that distributing flags which have been in the cargo hold of a warplane simply because owning an item which has been on board a vehicle which has presumably caused an awful lot of suffering to a foreign people, whether justified or not, is in extremely poor taste. Pain and suffering, regardless of the justice of the ends, is never a cause for celebration, and the people to whom these tokens of suffering are being distributed have no emotional or sentimental connection to the flags whatsoever.

Mini, I am not commenting on your possession of these flags, and I am certainly not demeaning you for cherishing them. They are obviously an important memento of the sacrifice you and your fellow servicemen have undergone in the defence of your nation, and of the coalition forces. I still maintain that distributing them simply because they may be considered 'cool' by certain steriotypical people with no connection to the war or the armed forces is doing nothing more than diminishing the real and symbolic value that these items carry for the pilots who fought and died for your flag.

[mininolan]

Jane was here

[jackslammer]

Mini, I am not commenting on your possession of these flags, and I am certainly not demeaning you for cherishing them. They are obviously an important memento of the sacrifice you and your fellow servicemen have undergone in the defence of your nation, and of the coalition forces. I still maintain that distributing them simply because they may be considered 'cool' by certain steriotypical people with no connection to the war or the armed forces is doing nothing more than diminishing the real and symbolic value that these items carry for the pilots who fought and died for your flag.

However much value a person finds in a flag can be completely independent from the war, the pilots, their beliefs, etc. it still represents the United States.

Rather or not you respect their values or however righteous you believe your value of Mini's flags are, it is not your place to judge anybody for offering or accepting an American flag.

It is also offensive to call those who value the flag as stereotypical people with no connection to the war.

[Sanderz]

this thread is dumb

[Crazy Diana]

u get em sanderz

[Lorake]

this thread is dumb

Scary, I agree with Sanderz. If you feel patriotic by owning a flag because you might share the feelings of those who had them during their missions, give your info to mini so he can send you one.

If you don't want a flag, don't ask for one. At least mini isn't asking for money for the flags.

[Ethax]

Mini can you get one of those bombs that someone painted "If you can read this you're fucked" on the nose of.

[Ethax]

PS this entire thread is a fucking travesty.

[lawlerbation the hardcore squatter]

If I want to give lawler an American flag soaked in the blood of 1000 innocent iraq babies, then I will and he will like it and I will feel good about it.

ill take one please