Up coming ICC melee TRINKET

[mascaron]

I have a good idea. If it's an upgrade, roll. If you're a DKP whoring asshat, stop coming to raids.

great idea.. too bad you don't enforce it so it doesn't mean shit. Hence kipp's idea

gogo Ghost.

[Firecrest]

great idea.. too bad you don't enforce it so it doesn't mean shit. Hence kipp's idea

I would love to enforce it. But the reality is that keeping track of 25+ people's gear is not practical. Not to mention knowing what's an upgrade for every class and every spec in the game. That's just not something one person can handle. I can watch it to some degree, but it's always after the fact. There's no realistic way for me to know if someone is passing on an upgrade as it's being rolled.

Kipp's idea caters to people who have specifically put their epeen above the good of the guild and I just believe these people need to be punished or removed - not pampered.

Why are we worried about the melee trinket in particular anyhow? Is it because that's where all our DKP whores are? You certainly don't see Jack starting up a thread on what to do about DKP whoring among the healers. If we know who the problem is to such an extent that we can predict the thing they will be whoring for before it even exists, this would be a great time to get rid of them.

[abecx]

This game is always going to have shady players, and shitbags that don't understand what being in a community means. We can't change the rule every time some bad apple comes into play, but we can sit and replace people that don't do what they are supposed to do.

Punani taking the Regalia kinda pissed me off after I thought about it. First off, if you take loot, you need to have it put together before the next raid. Offering it to me was a good idea, but there is too many people ahead of me for it to be of merit, I'm not going to make players make a decision on an item over me. I mean if I was in their shoes, and the GM/Main Tank/Raid Leader was all talking up how great an idea it would be if they got it over the other people in line, then I would be put on the spot to look like an asshole if I said no i want it over GMTANKLEADER. That's just not fair for me to put that on people in the first place and I apologize for that. It goes to whomever has the most DKP and wants the item, and punani that was you.

There is no take backs on loot that is an upgrade unless we agree on it as officers.

Loot council has always been on legendaries and very rare occurrences only, I don't want to change that 3 years down there road. If dashz wants to take the best trinket in the game and then bail because we have to get another mace then fuck him. I asked him if he wasn't like all the other pvpers that raid and bail when it gets repetitious, he told me that he wasn't, obviously his words and integrity were lacking in value unbeknownist to me at the time as others were also vouching for him.

People hording DKP for a trinket are just stupid, but holding that trinket for only a select few just isn't fair either. If I see someone that doesn't deserve it then I'll have a problem, but so far everyone that it has gotten a bad ass trinket has been deserving at that time. DKP is DKP and unfortunately its not always going to make everyone happy, but I believe in our system in making more people happy then any other type of system.

People that wait for one item don't get to be like the rest of you and have a full off set, main set, and a weapon only missing that trinket.

----

However, I am not completely closed to the idea and am willing to listen to arguments from some of our raiders and core raiders as to if they would be ok with the idea of giving some of the better non set items to certain individuals so we can push through Arthas as fast as possible. In the end we all know that player > gear, but gear does help out a lot.

[Crazy Diana]

dear kipp: that was abes fault not mine, ive given you the power to poll so edit your post as you wish

[Regolith]

i've used a loot council system b4 and i think it works to a certain extent. If we are going to consider using it, i would suggest using it for certain items like trinkets or whatnot.

[lawlerbation the hardcore squatter]

so even if it is a 1-2dps upgrade you should still drop 20-40% of dkp on it?

Because they totally make stuff like that, right?

I assume your question is whether I expect people to roll on minor upgrades. I do. An upgrade is an upgrade.

The exception would be passing on a small upgrade to yourself so it can be a big upgrade for someone else. But if it comes down to someone spending DKP on a small upgrade or that item being sharded, I expect people to roll.

I really don't understand why this is so hard for some people. The irony is that all the shit they're passing on would probably improve their performance a shit ton more than the one thing they're waiting for.

I have hm 10m boots on my hunter

if i wanted to grab the 25hm boots from twins that would literally be a 10-20dps upgrade for me

yet to grab them EVEN if i was the only person rolling for it would be i believe 35% of my total dkp

to pick up the weapon off anub when i already have a non hm weapon is around 30-40 dps upgrade yet costs 50%

if i upgraded from mirrors truth to deaths verdict that is closer to 80-120 dps upgrade and for the same dkp cost as everything eles

the part that sucks about this dkp system is that it truely does help the person that spends their dkp, but fucks over the people who dont get any drops for a week or two then get 2-3 suboptimal drops in a row. you want to take upgrades but 1-3 upgrades pail in comparison to one single item

BUT THEN AGAIN THIS IS INVALID BECAUSE I DONT EVEN RAID

[mascaron]

I would love to enforce it. But the reality is that keeping track of 25+ people's gear is not practical. Not to mention knowing what's an upgrade for every class and every spec in the game. That's just not something one person can handle. I can watch it to some degree, but it's always after the fact. There's no realistic way for me to know if someone is passing on an upgrade as it's being rolled.

Kipp's idea caters to people who have specifically put their epeen above the good of the guild and I just believe these people need to be punished or removed - not pampered.

Why are we worried about the melee trinket in particular anyhow? Is it because that's where all our DKP whores are? You certainly don't see Jack starting up a thread on what to do about DKP whoring among the healers. If we know who the problem is to such an extent that we can predict the thing they will be whoring for before it even exists, this would be a great time to get rid of them.

.. you don't have to keep track of 25+ people. It's "not practical" for all 25+ to dkp whore. Why? Because there is no point in dkp whoring if you're not going to get the item you're whoring dkp for. All you have to do is look at the top 1-2 melee, ranged, and healers. 3-6 people. And actually, yes, I certainly have seen Jack bitch about DKP whoring among healers. Don't know if you were even in this guild at the time seeing as you apparently don't know about it, but back when Avanne desperately wanted the memento, he didn't get any upgrades but just waited for it to drop. His case was ridiculous as the trinket didn't drop for a long time and it became VERY obvious what he was doing.

Kipp's idea caters to people who would make the best use of it. Trinkets are one step below legendaries imo.. just like we wanted to keep all the mementos and skulls in the guild for the most deserving, should do the same thing now.. generally this works out great through dkp. Sometimes it doesn't. Hell I don't even know who Ghost is, but since I've come back, he's been there every single time, and almost always on top. I don't think I've seen him fuck up more than once or twice even. That's why I mentioned him earlier.

Unless of course you want to give the trinket to Lawler. If Gemg got one item before the trinket dropped or didn't happen to be there when the trinket dropped, and Lawler was... it would go to Lawler. I think Lawler is a great guy, but he's so consistently removed from raid or not invited for w/e reason it would be a complete waste atm for Lawler to get the trinket, yet he has the dkp.

[Hitshade]

Im a little conflicted on this topic tbh.

Take for example... heroic Anub trinket. Went to a shadow priest. A shadow priest. Shadow. Priest. Not that the trinket is useless for the class by any means, but in terms of overall gains a mage, moonkin, ele shaman or dest lock would get more mileage out of it. But that's par for the course with a dkp system.

No matter which way loot is handled, someone will find something to bitch about. So in the end, no, leave our current loot system in place. DKP is being reset for ICC so no one is going to have any huge advantage when the time comes.


On the topic of wanting rolls even on the slightest of upgrades it appears I may severely go against the grain here. I for one would not blow a massive chunk of dkp on an item that would give me a 0.5% dps increase when I could, within reason, hold our for an item that would give me a 5% boost. As far as Im concerned, anyone who thinks Im wrong in doing that, can blow it out their ass. :angry-cussingblack: I have no problem what so ever in holding out for a larger upgrade, again, within reason.

I was recently top contender to grab the anub trinket. I had been, and would have continued to pass on upgrades providing 5-10 additional SP or Haste, etc., because the benefit did not outweigh the cost. Now when the beasts blade dropped, I rolled. It wasn't a small upgrade... it was a very large upgrade. It prevented me from obtaining a trinket which I so desperately need. But the cost:benefit ratio was worth it.

In any case, arguing about our personal feelings on how dkp should be spent is a worthless endeavor. We can either change the way we handle loot, or suck it the fuck up.

[jackslammer]

I attempted to give our resto druids Solace priority, even mislooted it to them. :lol:

Passing on sub-optimal upgrades isn't a problem as long as the items aren't getting sharded. I inspect people sometimes before sharding 258 items and have forced a couple pieces of loot onto people, sometimes for 1/4 DKP or say if a resto druid wanted the cloth 258 boots instead of the leather 258 boots, but only the leather boots are dropping, I'll charge them only once for their boots. I remember when we wanted Keiku to have a combat spec and I had two 245 axes in my bags to shard, I just gave him a buy one get one free discount since it was in a way his off spec. Abe made a deal with Rootbear to allow him to get the first tanking trinket which drops. Exceptions can be made to the system!

No loot system is perfect, and any ailments with our system I attempt to remedy by making exceptions, like the previous examples. Trinkets are the King Kong of DKP and any exceptions made around those would probably result in a lot of pissed off players especially the caster and melee trinkets.

[Searia]

Im new to this guild, but ive raided since vanilla wow, and i agree with archlight, that people whoring dkp for shit, are indeed... shitbags

BUT ONLY FOR ONE REASON

I never liked the dkp system for progression because of dkp whoring asshats, dkp.... isnt progression friendly because people that could spend there dkp on items that are guaranteed drops, or happen to be dropping, dont because they want this badass drop with a terrible drop rate of like 10%, and in this old case... i forget who you were talking about but someone didnt take any upgrades until memento dropped.... is OBVIOUSLY NOT progression friendly.... the dkp system works based on merit, attendence, and skill(if your docked dkp for being bad) and it only works to its best if EVERYONE rolls on EVERY upgrade, then everyone get upgrades and loot is spread around evenly

In terms of a loot system for progression, wish lists seemed to be the best "progression" loot system