Cata...

[jackslammer]

I'd like to take the time and respond to this often used response thats usually in the recruitment forum. This is bullshit and you guys know it. There have been plenty of raiders that have been garbage and linger in raids due to one or more officers liking them for other than performance. There have also been well performing players with indifferent/negative attitudes that don't get invited.

Friends, especially epoons, are desired over quality and its probably why this guild fails like it does.

This is an absurd claim. I can recall this occurring maybe a couple times ever and it wouldn't last long. Do you have any examples Sanderz? Bad players that were invited over good players when and in what content?

Players who just bitch about shit and don't actually act, those who talk the walk but never actually walk it, I encourage to either lead by example or assist officers and CLs do their job. If anybody has a problem with the players on the current roster then I welcome them to recruit better players, ask the current raiders to step out, swap the players around, analyze their logs and performance, etc., otherwise any bitching is just noise and detrimental.

[Sanderz]

This is an absurd claim. I can recall this occurring maybe a couple times ever and it wouldn't last long. Do you have any examples Sanderz? Bad players that were invited over good players when and in what content?

While I haven't played in 6 months and anything that happened before me quitting is getting foggier as the year goes by, I can still say that people in the KKK channel get left out of raids by citing attendance is the main reason of leaving them out, but mostly its from attitude problems like mini and tdl (even though it sounds like they do get some raid time, idk).

WLPH has had a ton of shitty holy priests that die instantly on nearly every boss attempt and they were given way too much time to try to fix it. Choco did better than most but he usually wanted to play other shit. There was one or two that were decent but I can't remember their names.

How about the lawler vs krynnyth shit? Lawler afking aside, that bitch should have been cut months ago.

How about the mage shit I had to put up with in BC? Rotating mages in sunwell to make everyone happy? Maymays didn't have the perception required for raiding. And Nairwind or whatever that bitches name was didn't belong either. Oh I would've kicked them, but I wasn't allowed to do it. It seems you still have shitty mages around (other the drunk mexican and the russian) but I don't really care enough to check raid logs.

Theres obviously more, but the women stick out the most because they usually suck (in more ways than one).

As to what lawler said about class limited selections, recruiting and alts fix that problem of bads being in crucial spots. Of course the immaturity of the website deters serious recruits, but that can be changed (but won't). Alts work but you have to have enough raiders to move around people. You shouldn't have to be stuck with bad players when you have good players that can change to their alts. It comes down to having extra people available at the beginning of raids, and I do realize its hard to get people to sit and stick around. Incentives such as wl dkp equivalent to raid dkp would probably work.

Players who just bitch about shit and don't actually act, those who talk the walk but never actually walk it, I encourage to either lead by example or assist officers and CLs do their job. If anybody has a problem with the players on the current roster then I welcome them to recruit better players, ask the current raiders to step out, swap the players around, analyze their logs and performance, etc., otherwise any bitching is just noise and detrimental.

I recall furly getting bitched out for giving advice, so whats the point of trying to argue shit with officers? During progression once the bosses mechanics were figured out, it felt like go with the flow or gtfo. I tried helping during raiding, but theres only so much you can do to fix bads and I was mostly ignored anyways because people think I'm a full-time troll (raiding that long made me jaded and I've changed my outlook on wow since I've quit).

I really don't care that much about this shit. Its in all the past. I do think its interesting in watching wlph making the same personnel mistakes, but you'll defend it with "we don't have many options and we raid with what we have". If you still haven't figured out how to get a feeder guild yet, you should at least try to get more people from pugs to raid. Plare started raiding with you guys after I left, but he was in the pugs for months. Theres other good people who aren't alts that will raid.

After further thought, I guess my main point should be to stop telling people that they might end up in the pug raids and actually give them a chance in your main raids. Don't tell them they might end up in the pugs because that doubt will lead them to not transferring, and you wouldn't be able to try them out then. You have bads you can sit while you try them out, and if they bitch about being sat, fuck them they're bads. And bads with officer friends shouldn't be treated any differently.

BUT WHATEVER. E-DRAMA IS OVERRATED. ALSO LOL RAIDING.

[jackslammer]

While I haven't played in 6 months and anything that happened before me quitting is getting foggier as the year goes by, I can still say that people in the KKK channel get left out of raids by citing attendance is the main reason of leaving them out, but mostly its from attitude problems like mini and tdl (even though it sounds like they do get some raid time, idk).

Mini has raided with us for like a month total ever, TDL has never raided with us, Cahn, Voke, and Ghost only don't raid because they don't want to, I can't recall once when we intentionally didn't invite them except Voke during Immortal, ahahaha.

WLPH has had a ton of shitty holy priests that die instantly on nearly every boss attempt and they were given way too much time to try to fix it. Choco did better than most but he usually wanted to play other shit. There was one or two that were decent but I can't remember their names.

Thorran always wanted to raid on his hunter, and the priests in question were Annamarie and Avanne and I remember constantly recruiting priests and having the highest turnover ever on that class during Felmyst, but WTF do you expect? Again nobody was overlooked this was strictly an availability issue.

How about the lawler vs krynnyth shit? Lawler afking aside, that bitch should have been cut months ago.

Again an availability issue, Lawler is never ever around and when he is he AFKs every other pull, and Krynnyth being a girl is far from epoon, she never uses her gender to her advantage, just as a disadvantage like when it comes to navigation around Icecrown.

How about the mage shit I had to put up with in BC? Rotating mages in sunwell to make everyone happy? Maymays didn't have the perception required for raiding. And Nairwind or whatever that bitches name was didn't belong either. Oh I would've kicked them, but I wasn't allowed to do it. It seems you still have shitty mages around (other the drunk mexican and the russian) but I don't really care enough to check raid logs.

I recall you being mage CL then, you couldn't have found a polite way to tell those mages off and justify it, maybe you did attempt to remove them and you did justify it but it was just never acknowledged, I don't remember it that well either. Regolith is the most consistent mage we've ever had, he may not spike to top of meters like Furly and Myndor but he is consistently right there with them and we never have to worry about him leaving for futbol or tequila.

Theres obviously more, but the women stick out the most because they usually suck (in more ways than one).

Ya other than maybe Nairwind you haven't mentioned one person that we intentionally replaced with a worse-performing player for any reason other than availability.

As to what lawler said about class limited selections, recruiting and alts fix that problem of bads being in crucial spots. Of course the immaturity of the website deters serious recruits, but that can be changed (but won't). Alts work but you have to have enough raiders to move around people. You shouldn't have to be stuck with bad players when you have good players that can change to their alts. It comes down to having extra people available at the beginning of raids, and I do realize its hard to get people to sit and stick around. Incentives such as wl dkp equivalent to raid dkp would probably work.

I really don't care that much about this shit. Its in all the past. I do think its interesting in watching wlph making the same personnel mistakes, but you'll defend it with "we don't have many options and we raid with what we have". If you still haven't figured out how to get a feeder guild yet, you should at least try to get more people from pugs to raid. Plare started raiding with you guys after I left, but he was in the pugs for months. Theres other good people who aren't alts that will raid.

After further thought, I guess my main point should be to stop telling people that they might end up in the pug raids and actually give them a chance in your main raids. Don't tell them they might end up in the pugs because that doubt will lead them to not transferring, and you wouldn't be able to try them out then. You have bads you can sit while you try them out, and if they bitch about being sat, fuck them they're bads. And bads with officer friends shouldn't be treated any differently.

I completely agree with you here and I believe a lot of this lies in the hands of CLs and officers to keep in touch with players around the guild, server, other realms, etc. to establish a good relationship and reel them in when they are needed while helping them gear, gem, theory-craft, etc. to gain experience elsewhere until we need them. Now the work of assigning the responsibility of CL/officer to the best player, most dedicated, online most, best geared, longest in guild, etc. can be difficult but can also be the most rewarding thing for a guild.

I also believe CLs or officers approaching a player and attempting to fix the "bad" and letting them become aware as to why they need to be replaced, would either encourage them to perform better and resolve the issue or allow them to leave without humiliation or guilt from the person replacing them. Just replacing somebody and removing them from guild is detrimental, they'll be invited back and they'll ask random officers why they were kicked and they'll be invited back to raids because assists won't know why; and most likely the player won't even know and end up posting on our 4umz about epoon getting officer priority for sucking. Like I said earlier if somebody is "bad" approach them and ask them to fix it, if they don't then recruit somebody and kindly replace them, and they'll probably go to a PUG and enjoy a one day raid week with less pressure instead.

And some things in WLPH won't ever change, like our website, our guild ranks and lack of structure, Abe's bullheaded approach to raiding, the +1 charisma epoon get and this isn't e-drama since right now is a good time to look back on WotLK and find areas we can improve upon for Cataclysm. I think having a fresh start in which trials, PUGs, raiders, officers, etc. are all on a level playing field will help a ton if we can keep this so called favoritism to a minimum.

[Firecrest]

I expect there to be a good deal more people who want to raid than will fit in raid. I expect good players to find their way into raid and bad players to find their way to the bench. If either one of these expectations are inaccurate or unlikely, let me know. Otherwise I will continue to point them out to people who wonder about their raiding potential in the new expansion.

[Hitshade]

LETS SLAY SOME FUCKIN' DRAGONS!

[lawlerbation the hardcore squatter]

for any one that was on the fence about cata.. this almost seals the deal

they are the ones making decisions for the game and they cant even get 2 kills in rated bgs

[ArchmageFurly in three days]

I understand where you're coming from Sanderz, However, in the last few weeks we've done a bit of restructuring and a great deal of recruiting and talking to old players etc. I'm confident that we'll have at least 35 good raiders that want to play in Cata. The intention right now is to spend that first month sorting through them and forming that core group. This means that yes, the bad will be weeded out, but also means that we'll be sitting a group of good players as well once we start 25 man raiding. With the new lockout system we can run a 25 man and then a 10 man late in the raid week for those who missed the main raid that week. Both Accused and I have done every fight on normal mode at 85, and though the fights aren't terribly difficult, they will serve to seperate the best players.Keep this in mind all you raiders. I don't care how good your dps is on farm content, I want you to be able to walk into a fight and learn how to optimize within a few attempts because that's what it takes to be a top guild.

CL's and Role leaders in Cata will be expected to make sure that everyone of their class and role is performing adequatly. I hope that people are taking time to explain to players what they could be doing better rather than simply demeaning them and trolling. I want the best raid group possible going into Cata, and that's only going to happen if people help each other out. If you see something someone can do better, talk to them, help them. You're only hurting the raid by staying silent. Another side to that is you actually have to listen to people. Don't ignore someone because you've been in the guild longer or during its "Glory days of Sunwell".

[Crazy Diana]

While I haven't played in 6 months and anything that happened before me quitting is getting foggier as the year goes by, I can still say that people in the KKK channel get left out of raids by citing attendance is the main reason of leaving them out, but mostly its from attitude problems like mini and tdl (even though it sounds like they do get some raid time, idk).

Mini has raided with us for like a month total ever, TDL has never raided with us, Cahn, Voke, and Ghost only don't raid because they don't want to, I can't recall once when we intentionally didn't invite them except Voke during Immortal, ahahaha.

i see no mention of me here

[CAN]

you ruined the algalon movie mr. D

[Talith]

lol well I'm not transferring to do pugs so I guess you guys have fun in cata

Even the Miia pugs are 10 times better than anything Nathrezim can offer.

Hell, you won't cut it for the friday PUG